Introduction by NID General Manager Jennifer Hanson

“Brandon Sanders is here representing PG&E. This is a request from our Board of Directors related to the outage associated with the Lake Spaulding repairs that are ongoing at Spaulding 1 and Spaulding 2 powerhouses.

Every time we receive new information based off of the weather and natural instream flows, we go through and recalculate all of our projections. Our projections still are holding, and our recommendation still stands for voluntary conservation at 20 percent in addition to the other items that the Board has already adopted through the emergency resolution, which was discontinuation of the fall water season and then prohibiting new or increased connections for raw water.

One of the other items that staff is doing right now is coming up with a plan to go to conservation. That consists of buying all the supplies and doing the leg work that would be needed to re-orifice the raw water connections. It would be quite the undertaking and so if that was ever needed to be done, we're going to be prepared. The good news is that could also be deployed in some type of other type of natural drought scenario, so it's not throw-away work. But right now we are still standing on our 20 percent voluntary recommendation.”

***

Brandon Sanders, PG&E Government Affairs Representative

“I work in local government Affairs at PG&E. My typical role is to serve as the liaison to County and City governments. Given the unique scenario we find ourselves in and having listened to your board meeting last time the desire to have some representation in person, I volunteered to fill that role.  

We're singularly focused on completing the repairs necessary to resume water delivery. That work is occurring around-the-clock, seven days a week. I do know that from the operational standpoint, I believe there are twice weekly meetings occurring with your team, and we certainly appreciate that collaboration. We do acknowledge the weight of the situation. But with that, I just wanted to let you know that I'm a resource to you and happy to answer any questions to the extent that I'm able. And I will continue to attend these meetings through to resolution of the situation.”

Questions and Responses

South Yuba Canal Pipe repair

Question: Director Trevor Caulder

[Can you provide] information about the South Yuba Canal Pipe?

Response: PG&E Brandon Sanders

My understanding is that we're completing some scaling and making it safe above the pipe, including removing hazardous rocks and lashing some rocks to the cliff side. I understand that to be ongoing. I've heard that we're looking at possibly alternative materials that we might be able to get in a more timely fashion to uh bring some degree of water conveyance back through that portion of the system. I would look to your operations team as they coordinate with our folks to get further updates on that.

Clarification: NID GM Jennifer Hanson

One of the things to note about the repair of a Spaulding Pipe: not only does the Spaulding Pipe need to be repaired, but also does the powerhouse. Those items are being scheduled and worked on. What is a little unknown at this time is PG&E has looked at different options for temporary fixed to the Spaulding Pipe section, but that hasn't been completely fleshed out yet.

One of the challenges with the repair of the Spaulding Pipe is a very long lead time on materials. So they've been trying to source alternative materials to bring in earlier and/or put into a temporary solution while also addressing the issues at the Spaulding 2 Powerhouse. The Spaulding 2 Powerhouse has to be fixed for water to then be put into the pipe.

Timing of repairs and expected flows

Question: NID Board Vice President Ricki Heck

What is the update on the timing of the temporary repair? And when that happens, what are the expected flows in the South Yuba Canal? Because the 350 cfs (cubic feet per second) we're talking about is the horn; it's not the pipe, correct?

Response: NID GM Jennifer Hanson

Correct. Related to a temporary repair, that's what's still being worked out, based on what size of pipe would need to be strung up and how that would work while they could still access the main section to do the permanent repair. We don't have exact details yet.

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Does PG&E have a plan or a schedule regarding construction and timing for that temporary repair?

Response: PG&E Sanders

It’s my understanding is that the design is being finalized. I do know that we're very focused on the mid-June timeframe for restoring water deliveries through that damaged horn. I would have to go back to the team and get a more detailed update on the other items.

Response: NID GM Hanson

There is a preliminary schedule that has not been yet finalized, but staff has seen it. Per our coordinated operating agreement, PG&E has asked us to not disperse it, but we could ask if we could share that schedule with the Board.

Magnitude of damage to the South Yuba Pipe

Question: Director Chris Bierwagen

Could you give us an idea of the scope or the magnitude of the damage to the Pipe?

Response: PG&E Sanders

I can speak to it in general terms; I believe it's a greater than 50-inch diameter steel pipe. It sits on a bench essentially on a granite cliff face. Some of it is supported by dry masonry; some of it is supported by cribbing and scaffolding. It's a major undertaking to repair. It's going to involve climbers. It's going to involve helicopters.

Question: Board Vice President Heck

But how much of the 50-inch pipe? Is it 20 feet? Is it 100 feet?

Response: PG&E Sanders

I want to say it's a couple hundred [feet]; I can get I can get a specific number. There was a really compelling visual, I believe posted by Yubanet, that pans from pipe elevation to the top of the cliff. Even I was pretty shocked that they could even construct something in that location.

Expected flows after South Yuba Pipe repair

Question: Board Vice President Heck

But once that temporary repair is complete, what are the expected flows? We’re talking just that pipe right now.

 Response: PG&E Sanders

I don't have that answer at the moment Director Heck, but I'll certainly carry it back and follow up.

Timing of obtaining pipe material

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Do you know what the timing of the procurement of the piping is? I understand part of the problem is getting the materials necessary to do this. 

Response: PG&E Sanders

My understanding is we're looking at multiple approaches, including an alternative material. I don't have a line of sight into the timing of delivery on steel piping, but I know that we're looking at creative solutions to avoid any further delay.

Timing of rock stabilization

Question: Board Vice President Heck

What is the timing of doing that final rock stabilization?

Response: PG&E Sanders

That's happening in real time.

Board Vice President Heck

What kind of materials are you using for that?

PG&E Sanders

We have geotechnical experts that are assessing it section by section. I understand that some rocks are being removed; some rocks are being lashed or tethered to the side of the cliff; and trees are being removed.

… basically just assessing for potential threats to the pipe below, across that effected section and even beyond the effected section. But the rock stabilization work is ongoing and it's likely happening now.

Permanent fix timing

Question: Board Vice President Heck

What is the schedule for the permanent fix? When do you anticipate the permanent fix for that section being completed?

Response: PG&E Sanders

I don't have that answer Director Heck

Impact of permanent fix timing to Scotts Flat

Question: Board President Rich Johansen

That permanent fix will probably not correspond to our irrigation season, but it might be in the offseason. How does that impact our refill of Scotts Flat next year, for 2025?

Response: PG&E Sanders

I really don't have a good answer other than to say that we're looking to restore those facilities as quickly as possible and safely as possible. I know that it's a singular focus for the team here locally, but I don't have a specific date as to when that's going to come back into service.

How many people working on the repairs?

Question: Board Vice President Heck

When you say you have a team working you 24/7, is that 25 people? Is it 100 people? Is it five people? Can give us a sense of how many resources PG&E has dedicated to the repairs]?

PG&E Sanders

It's a very large team, but in terms of people physically working in substructure of the powerhouse I believe they can only fit like maybe six or eight people in there at a time just because it's such a tight workspace. And those folks are either completing or have completed the demolition work, and they're beginning to prep for reconstructing the horn structure.

Board Vice President Heck So you have a team working on the pipe and a team working on the horn?

PG&E Sanders

Yes, absolutely. And not to mention all the different engineers, geotechnical experts, and a variety of others that are certainly supporting the project.

Refilling Scotts Flat

Clarification: NID Director of Operations Chip Close

The refill for Scotts Flat in the offseason will be dependent upon the repairs to the South Yuba Canal and having access to flows into that. We have indicated our need and desire to have some flows in that during the offseason, so I think PG&E is looking at the options analysis to see how they can attempt to keep flows to us while they're working on the other horns. It’s still preliminary, but we have indicated that we would like to see flows in that to help us refill.

Question: Board Vice President Heck

I'm trying to get a sense of the timing -- when would that need to occur in order to help Scotts Flat? If they can't get this repair done until next June, we're not going to refill Scotts Flat. But if they could get it done in October or November …  

Response: NID Director of Operations Close

There are two different scenarios we're dealing with: one is we are running short on supply to our canal system. The sooner we get those repairs in place, even if they're temporary, and get some flows down into Deer Creek, it will help us with shorting any raw water customers on the Deer Creek side.

The second portion of this is how do we refill Scotts after irrigation season's over? We will need flows in the offseason to help. There’s not enough watershed in there to refill Scotts naturally; we definitely need to import them. Historically, we have up to about 75 CFS that comes down into Deer Creek from the South Yuba Canal. In winter months, that drops down to about 35 CFS during storm events. So we're going to lean a bit heavily on in-between those storm events to get the water refilling as quickly as possible.

Director Caulder

What's the maximum capability of that conveyance?

Director of Operations Close

Roughly, at the head it's 107 CFS; at the end I don't think we've gotten over 80 CFS.

Director Caulder

It’s not like you can double it to fill faster?

Director of Operations Close

No. We are maxing out that system.

Board President Johansen

Can we just say how important this is for next year?

PG&E Sanders

Absolutely. I'll carry that back and direct questions to the appropriate folks.

Board President Johansen

Will you have these questions prior to the meeting, so we can post them and the answers on nidwater.com so people can see the answers before they come here? Is that possible?

PG&E Sanders

I can certainly work toward that

Timing to repair Horn One – June 18

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Could you please update us on the timing to repair Horn One? I understand we have now a new date of June 18th. It slid three, four, five times in this many weeks. So could you tell us with certainty when you expect to have that Horn One at least partially operational for the 350 CFS?

PG&E Sanders

June 18th.  That is with the date we've provided. Of course, there's always the possibility of issues that may arise. I know that the slip from the 12th to the 18th involved some additional LIDAR surveying that needed to occur. But all indications I've been given are that we're still targeting mid-June.

Question: Director Karen Hull

What variables have you locked down that make you feel confident that June 18th is the date?

Do we have a high degree of confidence in this, or is it more like, “Well, this is our best information at the moment, but we still don't know if we can get the materials or have the technical capability?”

Response: PG&E Sanders

I have I have a high degree of confidence. We have brought in some very specialized contractors that are familiar with the type of work that we need to do there. We also have our general construction crews or personnel up there. June 18th is the date based on the projected duration of each of the sequential steps to complete the project. I know at this point demolition is either near or at completion. That was obviously the critical first step in opening everything up and prepping it for the work that's to ensure.

I have a high degree of confidence in our team. Like I said, this is a singular focus. It has the attention of everyone at the company locally and at the highest levels of leadership. I would just say I'm very confident in the June 18th date.

Things happen, of course; you know it's a challenge. But I think that the fact that this is such a focal point for the company and such a high priority for not only us, but for all of the affected stakeholders, I think we're going to do everything we can to make that date.

Release of a construction schedule

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Can you let us know whether you can provide a detailed construction schedule to NID staff with sequential steps? Has that been shared with NID staff and can you do that if it hasn't?

Response: PG&E Sanders

I believe a version of a schedule has been shared with Jennifer and her team. But if there's conversations on the operational side that are seeking further detail, I would have to defer to those folks.

Clarification NID GM Hanson

We are still needing some detail flushed out. Just so the Board knows, the schedule was submitted to NID staff under the confidentiality provisions of our coordinated operating agreement. So, it's not something that we can choose to make public. That would entirely be the decision of PG&E.

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Understand. But it seems like you could make that schedule available to staff confidentially so it did not violate the terms.

NID GM Hanson

We have. There are some additional details; we've received several versions. The first version was extremely high level as even just as of this Monday we've received more and more detail.

The detail related to the repair of the horn is sufficient -- we can tell what the plan is.

It's the details related to the repair of the pipe that are not quite flushed out yet.

Also the Spaulding 2 Powerhouse issues are pretty well flushed out.

Horn 1 repairs to structural columns and repair dates

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Then my question is: you're going to do the partial repair to the Horn 1 so that we can get some flows. Can those repairs be done given that you have a collapsed foundation?

Response: PG&E Sanders

No, the foundation hasn't collapsed -- it was a pair of structural columns. I believe that those have been demoed and they're shoring in place, and that they're going to begin construction on new columns. I believe those columns are going to be much more robust.

Board Vice President Heck

So the answer is “yes,” the water can go through the horns while you are completing the repairs that the foundation …

PG&E Sanders

…The structural columns need to be completed concurrently with the repair to the damaged …

Question: Heck

… and so then the date of June 18th would also then have to apply to the structural columns.

Response: PG&E Sanders

That is correct. The reason that we're doing the single horn and the columns is that we can't work on both horns and the columns concurrently; there's just simply not enough work space.

That's why the decision was made in cooperation with your team to focus on the structural work and then on one of the two conveyance structures.

Water flow in the repaired Horn 1

Question: Director Karen Hull

Can you confirm the historical flow that is able to be managed in that repaired horn? Has it always been able to carry 350 to 400 CFS? Because we're looking at 400 CFS coming through

Response: PG&E Sanders

I believe that when both horns were in service it was somewhere around 760 CFS. So I think that is historically what has been conveyed through that structure

Question: Director Chris Bierwagen

These two horns are all in the No. 1 Powerhouse?

Response: PG&E Sanders

Yes

Structural column collapse  

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Could you give us a detailed explanation on the collapse of those columns? You know, I come from the real estate industry and things don't go along, along, along, and then just collapse, unless there's an earthquake. What led up to that collapse? Was it lack of maintenance? Can you give us a detailed explanation as to why that happened?

Response: PG&E Sanders

I don't have a detailed explanation. I will say, as I mentioned earlier, water being the most powerful natural force on Earth, you've got constant pressurized flow through there. And so naturally that's going to have an effect on structures over time. I don't believe that there was any sort of neglect in play here.

Board Vice President Heck

But wouldn't you have seen some cracks? When I see a foundation beginning to crack and move and stuff, you know that there's something going on there. And so I'm just baffled as to why this just suddenly collapsed without anybody going, “Oh, hello, there might be a problem coming down the pike, and maybe we should go look at it and get it fixed before it becomes a bigger problem.”

PG&E Sanders

I would say that's exactly what happened. We were doing our inspections we noticed an abnormality, and so we brought in a robot to go in and take a look. This is all typically underwater, so it's not something you can visibly inspect without dewatering the tunnel, which also has its own challenges. Because if you're decreasing and increasing pressure multiple times, that has an effect on equipment, too. So I would say that we did exactly that: we did the inspection; we noticed an abnormality; we continued to investigate further, and ultimately decided to dewater the tunnel, which at that point in time we discovered the damage and began work to repair it.

Board Vice President Heck

So what you just described happened sort of simultaneously with the shutdown of the horns? I'm just trying to get a sense of the timing, like which came first?

PG&E Sanders

It was all concurrent. The inspections, as they progressed and got into more detail, put visibility onto the equipment, and it was all concurrent.

Clarification NID GM Hanson

I do want to just go back to the ability to transfer 400 CFS through a single horn. Staff has requested additional data to substantiate that theory, and I think PG&E is still working through that request. The single horn, to our knowledge, has not ever transferred 400 CFS.

Question: Director Karen Hull

There was some inspection work done in fall of last year around September-October. I'm

wondering if  that identified the need to make some degree of repairs in the area, so what is the progress from that discovery to when we have a major problem? I mean I i' just like to understand bit about

what the company was doing then and then how it led up to the new discovery yeah

PG&E Sanders

I believe what you're referring to it's two separate things. There was an inspection completed that identified some coating that needed to be repaired or replaced. That's wholly separate from the situation we find ourselves in now with the repairs to the horns and structural columns. Those are essentially unrelated because that inspection I believe last fall was not in the submerged portion of the facility.

Timing of horn and column failures

Question: Trevor Cauldwell

Is the horn failure and the foundation failure totally orthogonal? They just happened to happen at the same time, or did one lead to the other?

PG&E Sanders

I can't really say. We noticed the abnormality, did the inspections and determined the path of the repair. I don't know if one preceded the other; we just discovered the two at the same time. I don't know if there’s causality between the two.

Column repairs

Question: Board Vice President Heck

Back to the columns: how are they going to be repaired, and do they actually really need replacement versus just to patch or repair?

PG&E Sanders

I believe they need to be fully reconstructed.  And I believe I heard that we going to clad them in steel.

Board Vice President Heck

And right now you're still saying that date of June 18th will hold to do the complete reconstruction of those foundational columns …

PG&E Sanders

… in the first horn

Community at risk

Board Vice President Heck

I hope you do, because our community is at risk, as I'm sure you know.

PG&E Sanders

I understand. I empathize. I've got co-workers from people with a small garden to a legacy ranch in rural Lincoln that irrigates 113 acres that's already taken a half a haircut on that, so we're all very concerned.

Board Vice President Heck

Many of our agricultural customers, well I would say all of our agricultural customers, are extraordinarily concerned, and it will impact all of the crops that are grown here. This is an enormous potential crisis that can't be overstated.

PG&E Sanders

Understood. And as I shared, this is our singular focus. We're going to go all gas no brakes until it's done.

Horn repair timeline (continued)

Board Vice President Heck

Can that horn operate with the collapsed foundation? I think you said no.

PG&E Sanders

To be clear, the foundation didn't collapse. In order for it to withstand the pressure of the re-watered canal or tunnel, they would both have to be fully repaired.

Board Vice President Heck

That underwater portion where the problem occurred, has that been routinely inspected? And if so, at what frequency?

PG&E Sanders

I believe it has, but I don't know what the intervals are on that.

Board Vice President Heck

It would be really great if we could see, if the public could see, the frequency of the inspections and what were the results. Like, did you get a hint 10 years ago when it was done? You know what I'm saying -- just to be able to put some brackets around how is this being done going forward. And then that would inform how we all look at this you know for the future, so that this does not happen again.

PG&E Sanders

I can ask about inspections. My understanding is like with any portion of our system -- whether it's power generation, electric, gas -- we have inspection intervals.

Board Vice President Heck

It’d be nice to know what the inspection interval was for that specifically, that has now collapsed.

PG&E Sanders

Again, it didn't collapse

Board Vice President Heck

Well I'm sorry but I'm using Paul Moreno’s [PG&E Marketing and Communications Principal] language. I'm not the expert; I'm just using his language.

PG&E Sanders

If the structure had collapsed, it would be a far different conversation

Second horn repair and timing

Board Vice President Heck

What is your schedule to repair the second horn?

PG&E Sanders

My understanding is that we would look to the offseason and take an additional outage to further complete the total suite of work that needs to occur there.

NID GM Hanson

… after October 15

Heck

That was my follow-up: while that repair is underway for the Horn 2, will there need to be outages?

PG&E Sanders

I believe it would have to be taken back out of service, but that wouldn't be a decision that we would make in concert with Jennifer and her team.

NID GM Hanson

the sooner it is done, the better

Director Karen Hull

Is there a timeline for repair of that system?

NID GM Hanson

I've seen it; there is one

Board Vice President Heck

I would assume that is in your plan for future repair and/or replacement of components to say “it's weather-dependent” would not be a reason to not continue forward.

PG&E Sanders

There might be situations where we get six, eight, 10 feet of snow in a very short period of time, and that's going to require us to do snow removal and make the area safe in order to allow for ingress and egress. I mean the road down into Spaulding is pretty steep and narrow.

There's certainly the possibility of weather delays, but I don't think it would be of any extended duration.

NID GM Hanson

I think it'd be very helpful if PG&E would take consideration of releasing the schedule.

PG&E Sanders

Yes, I will carry that back

Overall time of completion break-down

Board Vice President Heck

What is your estimated time for all of these outages? Please provide a detailed schedule to NID of what you're perceiving these outages to be.

PG&E Sanders

I believe Jennifer and her team have the schedule. Again, that's sort of governed by the condition, which I certainly no expert on, so I would defer to Jennifer and her team. But I don't have specific dates for the completion of the full suite of work. All I have to really provide right now is the June 18th date.